We had a most interesting discussion about standards and training well over a year ago. SeeTCI Training and Standards discussion

I would lke to suggest than the basic rules of Ethics/Standars be fairly basic in nature, similar to the "Leave No Trace" Standards or basically what has alredy been put together in several postings here or in the TCC site. We do not want to take care of every possible scenario since there are potentially thousands of diverse situations that require further refinement to cover that small universe.

The ideas presented by Peter J and many of the TCI educators are fairly
comprehensive and should be sufficient. Since these Rules of Ethics and Standars are mostly voluntary in nature ( Since TCI and TCC do not have enforcement power) it is up to the climbers and his group to follow them to the best possible in order to maintain the good name of the Organization and the RTC community in general. Making them easy to learn and to follow will make them easy to become the Standard that we all hope for.

Lots of these discussions are old, but they do bear repeating.

I too once desired a card that carried more power. But I have come to realise that only by wide recognition of our sport will there ever be any weight to throw around, regardless od the orginization that issued the card. So promotion is an important aspect of what we, the pioneers of our sport, must be prepared to do.

We at TCNC follow a practice of don't draw attention. Ninja, is perhaps too strong a term, but we are definatly don't ask don't tell. By following the guidelines set out above we will keep the officials friendly. Except for my bright red helmet I follow the blend in policy. When climbing in the wilderness, consider yourself one of the critters. You belong in the tree as much as the colony of ants, the owl, and the lizards, but follow thier example, BLEND IN.

I also only climb on public property, or private property that I own or have WRITTEN permission to use. The more places you can document that you climb safely, the better your chances of being allowed to climb some place new.

I think the next big thing will be personal insurance, liability especially. I know of several places that would give me carte blanche if I was able to back up my claim that I don't plan on, and can handle it if I do, kill someone. An orginization that wants to promote and publish standards should be prepared to also work to provide a group policy, perhaps we can get that in the not too distant future.

Another thing that would be FANTASTIC as far as standards would to have waivers, legal forms, examined by licensed lawyers of each state, that could be provided to participants or to property owners.

That's just my two cents. I hope at least some of these points are new.

Climb Safe!
Icabod

So then, the mission is for this group of professionals (you guys) in the discipline of recreational tree climbing, to present an intelligent and purposeful standard.

It would make sense to use ANSI Z133.1 as the template.
It would make sense for a “volunteer” to start out with Z133, scan the entire thing in to a .doc, .pdf, or other workable format, redistribute it to the members of the standards committee so they can strip out all the paragraphs that DO NOT apply to recreational climbing...
(we can probably get rid of about 85% of what’s in Z133 right off the top).

After the strip-out, the committee members email the entire mess back to the secretary, who at which time will tidy it up and send it back out for the next draft.

It would be at this point in time that the committee members would begin to submit what paragraphs will be injected into the stripped-out template in order to begin the creation of the “Recreational” standard.

Seems the sooner you guys & gals start working with hard-copy, the sooner it will become a reality.

By the way, it took 5 years to put together the original ANSI Z133 standard. (good luck boys)

Yes, No, Comments, Volunteers, Committee selection, Quit your day job?

I concur with EJ, since we need a good starting point.
Then we can submit this doc. to the Accepted Practices review committee, as Icabod suggested, since this invokes innovative ideas being submitted to the committee for the doc. to be developed.

The ansi standards were written, and correct me if I'm wrong, by insurance men in conjunction with industry representatives. The goal is to reduce finiancial impact on the insurance companies, not make climbing more efficent or innovative. It has made the industry safer, but also much more expensive. I used to rap on horrible rope, using ascenders as a rope grab, on a screw gate biner, all that changed (thank God) with better standards, but I also had an OSHA representative on my site with a tape rule measuring my bosuns seat, what would a 1/4 of an inch off spec hurt? One of our guys was fined for it though. Lots of good stuff there, but not necessarily required. Triple action 'biners for example. Personally I wont climb on anything but (after a bad experience with a screw gate) but you could'nt get my friend to climb on one even if you held a gun to his head.

Minimum rope construction is a good point, harness required a good point, but beyond that, ANSI _style_ standards will be a stretch.

Icabod