Did you have the opportunity to use an I'd or Anthron descender? both of these have sweet spots so if the climber pulls too hard or lets go, the device locks off.

What kind of backup system is used for descending?

Racks scare me in the hands of tree workers.

Tom

Tree climbers use a "let go-lock off" system when they climb. Our brain and muscles get programmed into an automatic mode after a while. Using racks and eights, especially without backups, assumes that in an emergency, our brain/muscles will do what is right.

To me, this is counterintuitive.

Also, since the weight of the rope below the rack will have a big effect on the rate of descent, it adds another reversal into the formula.

Just my opinion, and I know that it is a minority opinion

Tom

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
Also, since the weight of the rope below the rack will have a big effect on the rate of descent, it adds another reversal into the formula.

Tom, I almost always agree with your posts, but this time you threw me. The rope is supported by the tie in point. The only load on the rack is the climber and the gear he carries. The rate of descent is controled only by the number of bars the rope travels by. What were you talking about, maybe I'm missing something.

Climb Safe!
Icabod

I used to do all my raps from a 6 bar brake when I was doing window washing I even did several 15 story drops in a 40mph wind (talk about stupid, I landed about 40' horizontally from my anchor point). I never really thought about that. Because I generally had 30#+ of water attached to my bosuns chair and I always used all 6 bars. I have always assumed that I had sloshed so much water off on the way down that that was the reason for the speed up. I usually just adjusted by sliding bars up from the bottom of the rack; using angled slot bars it's hard to add bars one handed, and I never felt comfy doing that when locked off, but then, I've an old (10+ ans) rack and have no hyper bar. I guess it's true you learn something new everyday.

Climb Safe!
Icabod

I know that racks work. With proper training they are a good tool. Much better than eights.

My issue is that arbos brains are programed to "let go/lock off" which is the opposite of most rap devices. In a panic, I'm concerned that arbos will go to their auto mode which will lead to a fall.

Like I said, a minority opinion.

Tom

I generally agree with Tom -- the Petzl I'D seems to be the safest tool for me in single-rope descending. I often use it also as an ascender in the yo-yo method of climbing. In a lot of circumstances I also like my rack (mine has two hyper-bars and I can tie off almost instantly if I need to stop at a certain height on the way down, and it is rated for more weight than most other descenders which makes it desirable for rescue work) I've also used a Grigri, several versions of stop descenders (I like their smooth actions), and various figure-8 devices. Every one of these descending devices have their good points, while several also have an occasional bad point (for instance, the Grigri will sometimes slip if weight is taken off it for a moment and then reapplied) The figure-8s scare me the most, probably because of the difficulty in changing over to them while suspended 75-150 feet up in the air and the difficulty in tieing off if I want to stop on the way down. I've also learned that what works best for one climber may not be as comfortable or comforting for another climber.
I hope someday to be able to try a "Lock Jack" device, but I'm not going to spend about $250 for one until I know it's something I want in my bag of tricks.