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TCI Founder's Blog

Read what Peter "Treeman" Jenkins has to say about a variety of tree climbing issues and adventures. 

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Lighten Up Guys (1 viewing) (1) Guests
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TOPIC: Lighten Up Guys
#127237
nate123 (User)
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Zipping on eggshells.... 2 Years, 8 Months ago  
Hoo boy, looks like I’ve really let the mouse into the elephant pen on this one. Maybe I should clear some things up.

First of all, that picture was not how I recommend ropes courses to operate. I figured you guys would be all over me on that one. Not disappointed. After doing several weight tests on the cable from the ground, I went up to check the anchors on both ends for the umpteenth time and decided to try it out. It was getting late in the day, and I didn’t want to climb back down to grab a helmet (which I should’ve been wearing already, you got me on that one) and a lanyard. So I just chain _link_ed a couple locking biners and zipped down to the lower platform. Stupid? Maybe. One heck of a ride? You bet. Fortunately, no problems.
In fact, this is almost exactly like the set up used by many adventure parks (with the exception of the helmet), like the Treesort here in Southern Oregon for example. Click here to see their set-up. Or here, to see another set up like it. It works fine, but it’s not optimal. Hanging further below with a lever-operated brake and a safety stop at the end is better. I believe the Treesort has put up some sort of bungee stop at the end since I was there.

Ropes courses are like any other activity. Do it right, and you're safe. Do it wrong, and you'll get yourself injured. The same is true with rock climbing, tree climbing, snowboarding, mountain biking, or any other outdoor activity (with the possible exception of croquet). There is always the possibility of doing something really stupid, like getting your gloves sucked into the trolley, or not wearing a helmet…hmmm….

As far as frayed cable and leather gloves- it depends on the cable construction and the glove quality. Braking on 7x7 and 7x19 construction cable at least ¼” diameter isn’t a problem. I’ve tested medium to high-speed zip lines with 3/16” cable and medium duty gloves with little or no wear on the gloves. Most canopy tours and ropes courses will simply stitch an extra pad of leather onto the palm of a work glove when braking is really necessary. But like I said, it works great, but isn’t optimal. A mechanical brake (or something like the "mayan brake handles" Tom mentioned), and a little more distance from the line is preferable.

Regarding liability, injuries, etc.- all true. That’s why ropes courses have standards and regulations concerning set up and operation. I’m just the middle guy for the available products. I buy zip line components in bulk (harnesses, biners, cable, hardware, tensioning systems, etc., you name it) and retail it online. There are plenty of companies that will install, maintenance, and operate ropes courses (Oldtimer mentioned www.bonsai-design.com, there’s also www.giacanopytours.com), but that’s not something I’m even remotely interested in doing.

A little over a year ago, I started researching zip line construction, canopy tours, and ropes courses in general. I looked at multiple course designs, and came up with a fairly standard kit that most courses use, with small variations. Early on I realized I didn’t want to be installing these, due to liability, my inexperience, etc. So I just decided to retail the equipment to those who are qualified to do so. To my knowledge, there are only two prominent online zip line retail stores, www.outdoorfunstore.com, and www.ziplinehomekits.com. Both have an incredibly high mark up from wholesale, so I’m able to beat their prices with higher quality hardware.

Am I qualified to install and certify a ropes course? No. Definitely not. Maybe someday. But can I sell the gear? I don’t think that’s a problem. I may not know the first thing about tree climbing, but I can still get you a deal on a good piece of rope.

I built this zip line mostly so I can test multiple braking devices, get some experience for myself, and have some fun (not quite old enough for those beers ). I appreciate all the input and the concern for safety. You guys have been very helpful.

-Nathan

So....how'd I do?
 
 
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#127238
oldtimer (User)
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Good Job Nathan 2 Years, 8 Months ago  
Nate read your post and I see that you have done some background work into this zip-line stuff. That is why I told you and the other board members we need to let people do their stuff on their own and learn from their experiences. A lot of these high risk adventures need to be handled with care but I think people need too be allowed to dream and do what they consider their passion before everyone (neisayers) try to jump hard on their case. I wish you a lot of success on your venture. Keep us Informed and post here some of your experiences......good or bad ones. Who knows... maybe we may even learn something new from you!

Thanks for being open minded and not be defensive about all our criticisms. Sometimes we think that we know everything and our opinions get a little bit over the top.
 
 
 
Oldtimer,
Tree Climbing In Austin
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#127239
icabod (User)
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cartman 2 Years, 8 Months ago  

Nate, thanks for being a good sport... I could see you pulling a Cartman and just walking away saying "screw you guys, I'm going home!"


sweeeeettttt



Now this is interesting. . .
I do believe the above post(s) may qualify as a flame.
I’ve been hawking this forum for two years and finally Mr. Rogers neighborhood shows a little hutzpah. And well done too. No profanity or personal attacks. Merely a good healthy application of one’s own opinion of a person, place, or thing.



Ok, let me change my shoes, and my cardigan, and I'll elaborate...
...
...
...

Ok, I didn't mean to flame Nate. My sarcasam is a finely tuned instrument of logical argument. It is most often played to spur someone into rethinking a position, though often is misread as a personal attack. Thanks for taking it like a man. (Insert Hans and Frans: "don't be a girly mon!")

I really worry about someone getting seriously hurt. As a group we have alot of fun, but the moment somebody gets injured really bad I don't have so much fun anymore. When I can say, "I told you so", I have an emotional drain for the pressures of "I should have stopped him..."

Seriously though, climb safe. As the joke goes, the redneck's last words were "Hey y'all, wach 'is"

Gotta go the trolly just rolled into the living room...

Icabod (would you be my neighbor?)
 
 
 
Cam "Icabod" Taylor
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#127241
Electrojake (User)
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2 Years, 8 Months ago  
Nate, looks like you did remarkably well here.
> Nice delivery.
> Detailed but not boring.
> Positive attitude throughout your reply.
> Good clarification without getting defensive.

Although your R & D on this project is impressive. . .
. . . your customer relations skills are spectacular!

Nice reply.
Regards,
Electrojake
 
 
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#127242
Rod Justice (Visitor)
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2 Years, 8 Months ago  
Nate,

You did well. I'm glad to see you took the critiques well and with a good attitude. The flames kept getting higher and higher but you kept them in perspective, the mark of a good student.

IMHO, for the newbies who ask us our input, we should aim to practice correction without condemnation (thanks John).
 
 
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